@astro Nice tip. Thanks. I was actually so gutted that the fabulous #spice remote desktop, that allows copy and paste between different machines, requires #vm to work that I wanted for that reason alone to make my bear metal server into a single (sounds daft, right) vm simply to allow spice to be used. And then I realised that proxmox has handy backup tools as compared with the fuss of backing up individual services on a single large multi-purpose server using e.g. ZFS. .......