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Kat Marchán 🐈
Kat Marchán 🐈
@zkat@toot.cat  ·  activity timestamp 3 days ago

thinking about foss stuff, and I know I've groused about licensing stuff before, and how I feel like my only way out is to just Parity7 everything and fall into obscurity but...

...I think we need a different movement around open source, with new terminology, that clarifies the intent and opens doors to more pro-social behavior and capabilities (up to and including the potential for "ethical licensing").

I've been spitballing the terms Common Software and Community Software. The core idea is that things that count as Community/Common Software can't enter the realm of the proprietary (so, strong copyleft a-la AGPL and Parity, virality not necessary). What's the difference from "Free Software"? We get rid of "freedom zero", aka "the freedom to run software for any purpose". Common Software licenses may have Non-Commercial clauses, Anti-Particular-Industry clauses (such as anti-MIC stuff), etc.

I think "freedom zero" was a grave mistake. I get where it came from--a desire to remove discrimination--but what it resulted in was a hijacking of Free Software by the corporate "Open Source" wing to exploit an otherwise healthy community of people openly sharing their creations... for an enormous profit that we can't even quantify right now.

We need a strong return to copyleft, and we need to gather together and grow its existing ecosystem, away from the MIT/BSD poison that our world has turned towards.

Your thoughts are welcome on this. I want to have a conversation about this stuff and maybe eventually record all this in a longer-form blog post. If you know folks who have had similar thoughts please link them so we can chat, too.

#FOSS #FLOSS #OpenSource #freesoftware

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Alexandre Oliva
Alexandre Oliva
@lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

you'll be surprised that, because copyright doesn't reserve the right to run programs exclusively to the copyright holder, copyright licensing (= granting permissions) cannot withhold or delimit that right. there are some clueless license writers fooling themselves and others purporting to have copyleft-like licenses that do this, but all this shows is that they understand neither copyright nor copyleft

the other fundamental problem is that the entire notion of software freedom is that the developers/authors/copyright holders should not have power over users. controlling others through the software they use, even if for a good cause, amounts to unjust power, and such power shouldn't be available. (it also divides the community on what should be ruled out, which is a great way to weaken a social movement)

now, I understand and share the wish to promote socially just causes, and to stop injustice. the way to achieve justice is not to take it on your own hands, imposing your wish onto others by whatever means you can manage. that leads to absolute rule by the most powerful, and I'm sure you're not going to enjoy that. the way to promote social change and achieve justice is by democratically instituted and enforced prohibitions of antisocial unjust behaviors

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Edoardo Tenani
Edoardo Tenani
@endorama@hachyderm.io replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@zkat what if the control poin is not in the license but in the access? Access to OSS source code can be restricted. The 4 freedom are about what you can do once you get the code, they don't grant you a blanket right to access the code. I would be happy to contribute to code that restricts access to individuals or companies that subscribe to some standards. The 4 freedom could still be valid, but within the boundaries of a community with shared values. Losing access to the community means you lose access to future code changes. Not just not opening issues/prs. The cost in this regard is forcing a hard fork, which is way more expensive than a shallow fork with minimal patches. There are discoverability trade offs and tooling trade offs. But I see some benefits and there would be way less confusion than with licensing.

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Arne Brasseur
Arne Brasseur
@plexus@toot.cat replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@zkat I've long felt that, just like we have a plethora of standard licenses to pick from, we should also have more named and documented governance models, because these two are separate dimensions that tell you something about the "openness" of a project.

You can be closed source but with community (led or involved) governance, you can be (corporate) open source without any community involvement at all, and many shades between. This wouldn't be captured in the license, but in some kind of governance contract with the community.

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ティージェーグレェ
ティージェーグレェ
@teajaygrey@snac.bsd.cafe replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

"MIT/BSD poison"?

I think we have radically different world views.

Good luck with that.

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Neil Brown
Neil Brown
@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@zkat It may be adjacent to your core thinking here, but I wrote about "ethical licensing", and the FOSS licensing ecosystem, a year or so ago, after getting a few questons about them:

https://decoded.legal/blog/2024/02/an_introduction_to_ethical_licensing/

With apologies if this isn't quite on point.

An introduction to 'ethical licensing'

Technology, and programming, has always been political. I’ve very little time for discussions which try to separate “tech” and “politics”.
⁂
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Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ) :fedora:
Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ) :fedora:
@neal@social.gompa.me replied  ·  activity timestamp 2 days ago

@neil @zkat I think a big part of why freedom zero exists is because removing it creates a wealth of problems that nobody wants to deal with. Every intention can be flipped on its head and ultimately you can't win from that.

But even in the realm of existing FOSS, we already know that there are things they won't touch: software under GNU licenses, software that is demonstratively social, and software that is architected to maximize reciprocity.

Use those in anger if you wish. 😈

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