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Thanks for the many boosts & comments!
It's important people know that Bsky app collaborates with ICE & other fascists by allowing them accounts, even after they verified them.
(Verification is not a problem. Not deleting their account afterwards is!)
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Now some people take the opportunity to tell everyone they are not surprised.
I understand, neither am I. You probably warned for this to happen, just like me.
But I'm not sure how telling everyone you're not surprised is helping anyone.
Maybe the important thing is not whether it's surprising, but how bad it is.
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If someone says it's totally OK if ICE is on Bsky, please don't hold back.
People who say that ICE should be able to have an account on social media (or anywhere) as long as they obey the TOS, are the same people who think it was totally OK for nazi's to commit the Holocaust, as nazi law didn't say it was illegal to murder Jews.
It's centrists like that who brought us to this point, and I deeply hate them for it.
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I understand where you're coming from, but this reasoning seems too full of unintended consequences to me. if ICE were to set up an account on some fediverse server, or even set up its own fediverse server, what would your response be, aside from presumably blocking it? would you leave the fediverse over it, and call out anyone else who didn't do likewise?
This is exactly the point in which the Fediverse is far better than Bsky (Bsky is decentralised in their marketing but not in reality)
If ICE would make an account on for example BadlyModeratedMastodonServer.social, and they would not get kicked off by the server moderators, almost all other servers would defederate from that server. Just like we defederated from Trumps truth.social (which was built upon mastodon)
Communal action in stead of individual blocking.
so it looks like we're in agreement
I guess you will also agree on why your earlier messaging was problematic: it sounded like the issue was that they could get an account, and could get it verified, but these same affordances would be available to them with pretty much any ActivityPub-compatible server software, whether operated by themselves or even by some third parties.
the key difference, as you pointed out in response to my question, and which I advise you to focus your messaging on, is on how the server operators and the community would or could respond.
another IMHO problematic messaging weakness in the choice of use of the cartoon, is that it brings to (my?) mind the frequent nazi bar argument, that could lead people to react by leaving the space to the incoming fascists, instead of standing strong there and isolating them or pushing their hateful behaviors out. that association may be a "me" overreaction, because that argument's defeatism and manipulative nature often trigger me, and you hopefully didn't mean any of that, but it may be something to keep in mind
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@Grutjes I'm glad people are noticing this but its nothing new for Bluesky. https://clearsky.app's "top blocked" is full of the administration's accounts, including the verified DHS and Department of "War"
@Grutjes I absolutely hate what Trump and ICE are doing to my community.
I also worry that we are increasingly putting ourselves in social media bubbles to the point we can no longer even acknowledge the existence of people or points of view we disagree with. America is in the shit right now. How do we come out of it with something resembling a functional democracy?
@andyw350 There is no space where we need to give a platform to stormtroopers or fascist apologia. We're not in a bubble, rather they need to be quarantined because of their ideology of hate and destruction.That bubbles narrative is based on normalisation BS that wants the Overton Window to look out over death camps.
No quarter for fascists or fascism
Mastodon server administrators must exclude "bsky.brid.gy" to terminate Bluesky interactions (federation) on their Mastodon servers. It is time to take a stand against the devil in disguise...
@Grutjes That was fast. Kinda feels like the whole thing was just a honeypot trap for people protesting Twitter.
@Grutjes Radical lefties are really tired of telling y'all - we fucking tried to warn you!
I believe in a fedi for everyone so people should be able to follow the Trump administration here. like horrible people are allowed to have websites on the net and we can visit them in any browser.
the way it would work here is the administration would run their own server and people could federate or not.
the way bluesky does it, they are paying for infrastructure to allow them to reach people. and maybe running algos that recommend them. ugh.
Bluesky linking accounts are muted.
@Grutjes Verifying an account is not the same as endorsing...
@Grutjes not sure what this account is tracking, but my understanding of verification on bluesky is that it just uses DNS records to do the verification. I've verified myself on there before as well. It's an automated mechanism if you control your domain.
@Grutjes nevermind I take it back, BlueSky themselves did verify this, and ICE did not use the DNS approach to verify themselves as ice.gov.
Very depressing to see the reaction from Bluesky users on their Reddit, they're basically saying it's fine to host ICE as they can block it.
There's no thought being given at all to the violent dangerous hatred the ICE account will spread to those who don't block it, and the consequent radicalisation.
You can't block someone attacking you on the street.
@FediThing @Grutjes Giving them a platform of any kind also gives them power. I get that Bluesky wants to remain neutral here but this is not the time. Neutrality just feeds fascism.
@drearicheli
They SAY they want to stay neutral, but what they really want is fascism, and to be the social media network that gets the nod from the fascists.
I think you're both right!
Drea's right about the folly of neutrality in the face of fascism, but also xinit is right that Bluesky are sucking up to a fascist goverment.
Guessing Bluesky just want money and power, they see pleasing fascists as a way to get both.
@FediThing @Grutjes I must say I prefer to tailor my own feed rather than have big tech or anyone else do it for me.
Muting and blocking are not difficult.
@wtwagg @Grutjes It's not about you or your feed, it's about the spread of hateful lies. Here's an example to explain what I mean, it was written about Threads but applies to Bluesky as well: https://social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/112581263140051643
@FediThing @Grutjes when someone says something bad in a public forum they get blocked or they get ratio'd or moderated. That's how social media works.
If they're posting stuff that puts innocent vulnerable groups in physical danger, they need to be banned.
If they're not banned, then their posts reach those who haven't blocked them. That's the point of my post at https://social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/112581263140051643
@wtwagg
Try that on Twitter. On #BlueSky you are one update away from not being able to block anymore.
@FediThing @Grutjes
@lostgen @wtwagg @FediThing @Grutjes What do you mean by that? I can block anyone I want on Bluesky. I can even find lists of accounts, maintained by activists I trust, of accounts to block. If I request, they’re all blocked from me, as are new entrants to the list.
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If BS weakens the block function in any way, I’m gone. But I see no sign of that happening.
@spradlig @lostgen @wtwagg @Grutjes
It's not just about you hiding stuff from your feed, it's about stopping the hatred being spread to other people's feeds and radicalising them.
Even though ICE has the most blocks, it's still only a minority of people blocking them overall. They are free to spread their lies to most people, and some of those people will believe the lies.
Also, even seeing the account itself not being banned from the platform while other accounts are banned gives ICE a sense of respectability, like it's something normal to have a government agency murdering people and kidnapping them.
I admire your politeness and patience to this person. I have none of it, I'd have liked to slap his face.
@FediThing @spradlig @lostgen @Grutjes You are trying to protect the world from stupid people and that is a slippery slope. Better to put up better arguments and ideas.
@FediThing @spradlig @lostgen @Grutjes People who do not follow will likely never see the account. Those that do see it are always free to call them out and expose any lies. This cancel culture crap is a big part of why Trump is in power today.
On every instance I'm on there are always people trying to get other people banned. This is a bad idea. At least in the fediverse you can always create your own instance for more control.
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@FediThing @Grutjes not to mention they are probably very interested in harvesting the list of everyone that blocked them for palantier to injest
Yup, just checked, web profile at https://bsky.app/profile/icegov.bsky.social
Verified and everything 😡
Bluesky are collaborators.
@Grutjes welp, so much for bridgy.fed