Post
@EverydayMoggie asks:
E-bike motors are not very reliable; it seems that about 25% of them fail pretty quickly.
Q6. If you have an e-bike, have you had trouble with the motor?
https://youtu.be/xOZf0U1XsoE
#BikeNiteQ #BikeNite #BikeTooter #Cycling #MastoBikes cc @bikenite
@ascentale
A6
1/3
my 1st e-assist:
2010: StokeMonkey #cargobike specific. Simple 3ph dc hub motor driving stoker side of a 3x tandem crankset. Unstoppable, bulletproof. pull stumps, sipped power.
2020: horrible winter. had to store bike outside under plastic. 1ph on motor failed, water instrusion, 4 miles from home in freezing rain & snow with a load. sucked, bigly
motor EoL'd in 2015, shoulda bought a spare when I could.
alas.
(Cont)
@ascentale
A6
2/3
replaced (I was in a rush, I *need* my bike!) with a Tonsheng TSDZ2
modified with a double chainring.
wasn't great(?), no where near as much torque as the StokeMonkey, but I did really like the torque sensing drive. Used far more battery power.
It lasted almost exactly 3 years.
Have sense learned I did pretty well. Even 'real' factory oems don't reliably last much longer.
(cont)
@EverydayMoggie @bikenite
@ascentale
A6
3/3-fin
Current drive system
Bafang BBSHD canbus, again modified with double chainrings
I flatly outright reject 1x drivetrains for #cargobikes
The StokeMonkey allowed crawling grades at 2mph while sipping power for help.
never got hot
none of these systems do that.
but none can be geared down low.
had to go to 48v from 36v to use it.
But, it's been 'ok'
I can get the work done.
also
good reputation.
@ascentale
epilog:
fwiw
folks have explained that my StokeMonkey's beating heart, the Crystalite 806 isn't dead at all.
it's just sleep'n!
I did pack it away, and all the bits.
&
given time & assuming I can actually *find* it(!),
I can take it apart, clean it, test & replace whichever diode failed, press in new bearings, and put it back into service.
&
I may do that.
it is exceptional.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie #BikeNite A6 I've had about nine e-bike motors and only cooked one bbs02 controller, trying to push it too hard at a standstill. They're much happier spinning at max speed, whether hub motor or mid/crank drive (you need to use the gears effectively to keep it cool.)
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6. I am happy with my Bosch CX motor plus 2x 500Wh batteries (1000 Wh in total available in parallel). Running for almost 5 years now without any issues at all, but only around 5000 km so far. My weight is a bit heavy, so my e-bike has to provide continous support.
I am having problems with my Enviolo NuVinci because I feel that the gear ratio is no longer the same as it was originally.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite I own two ebikes and have tested maybe 100. some of them didn't even last the test period :-)
Most are decent. Bosch in my experience are the most reliable. Bafang hub motors are pretty reliable at the lower end
@ascentale
A6: our Bosch cargo line model has been working very well. Still get some very good mileage out of it (up to 80km) when i run it on economy settings
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
A6: The original Bosch Performance CX 4 of my 2022 Bike failed after roughly 6500km. The internal clutch was faulty.
To my knowledge the Bosch motors are never repaired by Bosch, only replaced.
There are 3rd party shops that do attempt repairs.
The motor was replaced on warranty and has been running 13000km since then.
Then again, everything in this ebike wears out quickly.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
I switched to a better quality 750 hub motor on my daily-rider in 2019, and never had another problem.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie@sfba.social @bikenite A6.
I have had 2 bikes I got converted with kits, and a cargo quadricycle that came with e-assist. None had a failure that was the motor itself. Usually, the problems would be battery related because when the kits were sold to me, I was told *nothing* about battery management for lithium batteries and thus when ableism kept me off my bike for months, I was not still conditioning the batteries. #BikeNite
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite #BikeNite A6. I note that the data presented cover only mid-drive motors. It doesn't look to me like any hub motors are represented.
Futhermore, eMTB motors are, as the author notes, subjected to far higher stresses and potential abuses than motors used on the streets, so I wouldn't even count that data, at all.
Nor does there seems to be any differentiation of failure modes. Mid-drive motors have complex electronics mounted inside their cases.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite One thing this video did impress upon me, however, is that mid-drive motors have problems with seals, and water ingress seems to be the primary culprit in failure.
Because of the problems with Rad Power Bikes potentially going out of business entirely, I have been planning for my next ebike to be a custom build using a Bafang BBS02 750 W mid-drive system, since Bafang seems to be the most popular and widely available retrofit.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite #BikeNite A6 No trouble with motor on our e-bike, a #TernNBD P8i with a Bosch motor. ("Bosch Active Line Plus motor provides up to 50 Nm of torque and 270% support. Bosch PowerPack 400 powers long trips, commutes, and journeys.”)
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite I used a Bionx in-wheel motor until the battery wore out. I’ve been using a Cyc Photon direct from china motor since then (about 3 years).
So far zero problems with either.
My wife has a Tern with a Bosch (I think) motor. It gets less usage, but again, zero problems.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6: had an ebike for a few months, a second hand longtail with an AliExpress front hub motor. The unreliable part was the display on the handlebars, it was not waterproof.
I bought a replacement for ~$20, took it to work and sprayed the insides with conformal coating then filled the voids with acid-free silicone and closed it back up. That may have helped, it may not. But I never had more problems :)
@moz @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite ooh, I'm going to have to find a can of confirmation coating, didn't know you could get that! I have several other outdoor projects in mind that could use it like a crow box
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6 #BikeNite I installed an aftermarket assist on one of my bikes last July (Tongsheng TSDZ8). I use it twice a week for my commute, including winter. So far, so good. It has a removable battery, so when it is cold, I bring the battery indoors, let it warm up for a few hours, and then charge it.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite #BikeNite A6. My Rad Power Bikes RadMission has been completely reliable since I acquired it new in late May 2022. It has a 500 W rear hub motor made by a Chinese manufacturer I cannot identify. I live in a hilly area and regularly subject it to maximum loads.
@gcvsa @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite didn't rad power use bafang?
@trouble @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite Some of their bikes may have used Bafang motors, but they may have also used other suppliers. They don't specify, of course.
@trouble @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite The only visible markings on the hub of my 2022 RadMission are "Rad Power Bikes 27.5-2017160604-1".
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite no trouble, used it several times down to 25 degrees F with no issue
@ascentale@sfba.social @EverydayMoggie@sfba.social @bikenite@fedigroups.social
> E-bike motors are not very reliable
I wouldn't be quick to reach that conclusion. AFAIK, battery stability and reliability depend heavily on who makes the battery. My e-bike has a Bosch system. I've had it for 5 years and never once has the electrical system, including the battery, failed.
#BikeNite #MastoBikes #BikeTooter
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6)
Bosch active line 2nd gen / 2015: re-greased the gears at approx. 15000km as there was noticeable gear noise. No issues after that. Swapped to a refurbished 2nd gen performance line motor at 27000km as I had to remove the motor anyways to replace the battery cable that was corroded due to salt water 2 years earlier.
The original battery is at approx 22000km and ~10 years and one battery cell has low capacity now (bike switches off at approx 50% indicated charge).
Had a BMS board failure with a battery that was just 3 years old (Fagor Schottky 2A 60V used in the 5V supply of the CAN controller, BMS chip and microcontroller). Fixed this myself (<10 bucks instead of ~700 bucks for a new battery).
No "professional Bosch certified bike shop" would've done what I did to keep it running/extend its useful life. They just swap components and want a lot of money for it and if its old just buy a new bike....
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
#BikeNite A6:
I've had my Specialized Vado SL 4.0 for 4 years and 7300 miles and have never had an issue with its Specialized motor. So I never worry about it.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6. We have 3 e-bikes at my house, and have had exactly zero motor problems with any of them. All Bosch though, and that expectation of reliability was part of what drew me to them. #BikeNite
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite #biketooter #bikenite q e-bike motor fail?
DOn't have one but ... don't know anybody whose motor failed.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite my second hand Aventon Abound has other issues but the electric side is fine. I brought it at 1800km and it's at nearly 2100km now.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6. No trouble so far, after 2 years and around 4,000 miles. But I made sure to buy an e-bike with a Bosch motor.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6. #BikeNite No problems with the Shimano ep800 motor on my emtb. It is about 5 years old with 3k miles on it. I mentioned here that I replaced the battery because it lost 20% of its capacity. Not looking forward to replacing a motor as well, if it comes to that. Although, it is still a very good bike and was very pricey when new (I bought it used).
I know someone with the exact same bike (pivot shuttle) and they recently broke the frame. I think they ride it harder than I do, or at least I hope so. That person chose to rebuild the bike with a replacement frame because the repair cost was still only 1/10th the cost of buying it new (~1200$US). I think the cost is all labor, with the replacement frame obtained through warranty.
@ascentale@sfba.social @EverydayMoggie@sfba.social @bikenite@fedigroups.social A6. I've got a Lectric XPedition 2.0 with about 1200 miles on it, and so far the motor's been perfect, but I did have to replace the torque sensor. Fortunately, their support shipped me a new one as soon as I contacted them about it, no questions asked.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite #BikeNite A6: I have two e-bikes, one is a bio bike that got an friction wheel based e-assist system named Velospeeder in summer 2023. Had quite some smaller issues, but never with the engines itself: broken pedal sensor cable, worn down rim, worn down friction rings, a mounting that worked loose, …
The other one is the Brompton Electric G-Line with ex-works e-Motiq rear hub motor. The only issues so far were contact problems between battery and frame.
@EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6. I don't use e-bikes a lot but thankfully have had no problems with the motor. There do appear to be some small problems with the battery system that probably have something to do with not charging it often enough.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite some battery chemistries will die quickest when charged from 80% to 100%.
Unfortunately most bike batteries are very hard to short charge, and the maximum range isn't such overkill that most want to start every ride/day with a full battery.
@LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite The other question is: do you live somewhere cold enough for your bike to get below freezing? Good batteries will have controllers that sense it's too cold and refuse to charge because that _will_ damage the battery.
@moira @LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite Good point. My advice is to charge inside the house during winter. I also take my batteries into the house in winter, even if I don't need to charge them.
@moira @LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
I rode a Tern GSD for a year. When I sold it, the buyer had a shop check it out. They put the Bosch battery on the shop tool and said "this battery has been charged while cold!"..It almost cost me the sale
So I'd say no: the expensive batteries do not do enough to manage their charge temperature. If the temp was cold enough for it to log the event, then it could have just refused. Or warned. Or heated itself with 5 cents of nichrome wire
@NNN @moira @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite can actually be free to heat the battery: just discharge it quickly till it warms up :)
@moira @LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
#BikeNite If my garage temperature gets below freezing, I'll bring my ebike into the house to charge it.
@moira @LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
I don't have an e-bike, but that definitely happens with my bicycle cameras. Too cold and they shut off.
@cainmark @LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite That might be for other reasons; Lithium-Ion can be _used_ - discharged - just fine below freezing. It's just charging that's bad.
But other electronics also have their own temperature ranges and CCDs are no exception, so there are plenty of other reasons for them to shut down. It _could_ be the battery's discharge rate, but it could be something else too.
(The key point being it's okay to use LiIon batteries below freezing, it's just charging that's bad.)
@moira @cainmark @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite I'm pretty sure they lose capacity when very cold. That may mean they can't run the camera, or it could be the CCD is too cold.
There are many options
@moira @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite I don't, and I question why people do ;)
@LovesTha @moira @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite Not all of us live in sun state California. 😉
@realSiegfried Yes, I wouldn't want to live there either.
@LovesTha @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite Some of us like it cold, that's why. ^_^
(Some of us come with what I call "the complete cold weather package" which means we'll shovel snow in shorts but literally pass out in temperatures Southerners consider "comfy." We have a ... definitely more northern habitable band. 😁 )
@moira @ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite I'm a 5~25C type. It's a range well suited to a 37C body
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite
We've had our Norco Scenes with Shimano systems for 5 years with no problems. At our last service our bike mechanic upgraded the firmware and said battery life should be improved somewhat, but we've never gotten near running out of battery power.
https://the5thc.blogspot.com/2022/08/norco-scene-vlt-e-bike-for-people-that.html
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6: Holy shit, no. Nor do I know anyone who has, and I know several people with eBikes. That's nuts. Given the videos they're showing with the voiceover, I'm wondering if this worse in mountain bikes and/or higher power/higher class eBikes.
@ascentale @EverydayMoggie @bikenite A6 continuance: Ah, rolling the video in the background, they do have separate data, and it's MUCH worse with mountain bikes, and that makes sense.
Also, before rolling the video, I was guessing Yamaha and Bosch would be the most reliable, and basically I called it. Add in Giant though, they did quite well too in this surveying.
