@edd asks:
Q4. Does anyone have experience with oval chainrings? Thinking of possibly switching another (3rd party) step down in tooth count as the kids get heavier with our hills and oval chainrings are supposed to help with climbing, and I need all the climbing I can get without buying a new groupset (or bike).
#BikeNiteQ #BikeNite #BikeTooter #Cycling #MastoBikes cc @bikenite
@ascentale @edd @bikenite they all say they'll make you more efficient and climb faster and whetever else, and if they did *every single pro* in *every single discipline* would be using them unless their sponsors forbade it. It's worth trying them to see if you like the feel of them tho, that's the reason to switch.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite love them on my single speed mountain bike, they are amazing to crawl up steep stuff with low cadence. Secret single speed weapon to be honest, always wonder why not more single speeders use the..
I also have oval rings on the gravel bike, not sure I notice them tbh, but they made it possible at the time to go smaller than stock...
@mario_angst_sci @ascentale @edd @bikenite Good to read an "I actually noticed the difference" answer, and the conditions under which you noticed.
2 further thoughts as a result -- that they would be even more pointless on eBikes where the assist is carrying you through the spot where your legs have the least torque -- except maybe on the crazy gradients I sometimes try to carry loads up where the limit is maintaining balance at the equally crazy cadence of the ratios needed to get the leg torque
and
maybe few noticed on other than single speed bikes because the ellipse on mass market rings was not enough, actually set as a compromise so inexperienced users didn't feel it was yumpy. I did look at a few but never bought even to test because my instinct was "this is not enough to make a difference" but I might have gone for a more extreme oval.
@wavesculptor good points and I agree - maybe to add, on the singlespeed mtb, to me it feels most helpful on technical climbs (e.g. rocky stuff, roots) where you really want to apply pressure forcefully at the right time and not be stuck in a dead spot just when you need to lift that front wheel over something and need that little boost. Just grinding it up a smooth forest road, less so.
@mario_angst_sci @wavesculptor @ascentale @edd @bikenite I was on a 22% climb on the gravel bike the other week and the front wheel just wanted to pop up all the time. Do you think they’d make a difference there?
@danwwilson @wavesculptor @ascentale @edd @bikenite not really I think, that is much more about body positioning. So what helps is (in the words of an old XC MTB instructor) "Ellbogä abeeee!!!" 😅.
("elbows dooooown" if you do not speak Swiss German 😅)
@danwwilson @wavesculptor @ascentale @edd @bikenite
although at 22%, walking also helps I guess 😅😅
A4. Plenty have tried them and concluded oval chainrings are not worth it. Psychological value for the odd pro, like Chris Froome. Save your money. #BikeNite
My mad stainless steel 1x has an 40t oval chain ring. It came from eBay seller like that. I don't notice any difference from my 50t Shimano da or 53 campag SR.
I put my assioma power meter pedals on and did not measure any change in stroke dynamics whatsoever either good or bad .
Frome loved them but he (apart from being superhuman) has some strange ideas about bikes
I wouldn't bother. The science is at best suspect. The only example of them "working" is really Chris Froome, and his sabutamol probably helped a little there...
@ascentale @edd @bikenite Q4 #BikeNight Yes. I run Absolute Black ovals on a road bike and sometimes bikepacking MTB too. I really like them, and my cadence is far smoother. This likely reflects badly on my pedalling technique on round rings, but hey.
Replies keep mentioning BioPace, but modern day ovals like AB and Rotor aren’t orientated that (wrong) way.
@pete @ascentale @edd @bikenite yeah what is up with all of these biopace mentions? To each their own, but that orientation of the oval is ancient stuff by now?
@pete @ascentale @edd @bikenite I did wonder what effect having the pedal lagging or leading the bump would have.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite #BikeNite A4. Yes, my current fitness bike is a 1991-1992 Trek 820 with Shimano Biopace. TBPH, there's really no discernable difference between ovalized and circular chainrings, except that power delivery might be slightly smoother throughout the 360 degrees of rotation. The reason Biopace is no longer sold is because it simple didn't provide enough benefit to justify the extra cost of manufacturing.
@gcvsa @ascentale @edd @bikenite I remember when Biopace was all the rage -- 1980s, perhaps? I was curious at the time.
I have apparently outlived them.
@gcvsa @ascentale @edd @bikenite I used to have biopace on my London courier bike in the 90s. I loved that bike but can't for the life of me remember what it was. I was all for scratching out logos and brand-names back then. I guess it went deeper than I thought. It had a weird frame made of anodised aluminium tubes glued into steel joints.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite A4. I have the original Biopace triple rings on my circa '92 Trek mountain bike. I've never really noticed a difference with round chainrings, but the difference in chain ring size between my road bike and the Trek is rather large, so kind apple and oranges here. I did hear/read once that Shimano got the geometry off by 90° and that there are oval chainrings that do work (for some definition of work). I will be replacing all the moving bits on my Trek soon, and saying goodbye to the Biopace rings and the triple as well (going to double, not a single). #BikeNite
@rand @ascentale @edd @bikenite I was there 3000 years ago meme. A lot of commentary at the time they came out about the 90-degree thing. It wasn't accidental: Shimano had a reason for doing it. Just don't recall what it was. I remember not being convinced.
@rand @ascentale @bikenite I'm admittedly kind of out of love with 1x groupsets for my kind of riding, as much as I love having fewer moving parts to maintain.
@edd @ascentale @bikenite I like and use the range, I spend a lot of time on the big chainring. And can’t live without the little one.
@rand @ascentale @bikenite Yea, I'm thinking a 2x is the sweet spot for me, but I don't really want to shell out that much money right now. 3x was a bit of a nightmare for me, probably due to it being a cheap Truvativ more than anything, though.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite A4: I run an Absolute Black non-round chainring on my #singlespeed mountain bike, and I'm able to turn a harder gear than I could with a round ring. It definitely helps me on climbs. And it's fun to watch people's 🤯 when they realize that chain tension remains constant with a non-round chainring.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite #bikenite A4. I've been partial to Biopace chainrings since 1980s. Subtle difference in rhythm and feel of pedalling. Not better for climbing, but IMHO more comfortable on knees for long rides. For hills, don't be afraid to go for smaller granny gear than anyone recommends.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite I rode a 2nd hand bike with "biopace" oval chainrings for a few years. Didn't notice any difference.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite When my wife's front (triplet) chainring rusted through, I installed two new-old-stock Biopace rings. The smallest ring is fine, the biggest one resulted in skipping and the chain getting stuck. I swapped out the big one for a normal round one, but kept the small oval one. My wife has not noticed a difference between the rings. #BikeNite
@ascentale @edd @bikenite #BikeNite A4. I have had Biopace (Shimano 105) chainrings for an eternity... I don't think oval chainrings help at all for climbing. What *does* help, however, is to switch out your front chainring to the smallest one possible on your bike... Which I did for one bike (made a HUGE DIFFERENCE), and would do again if available... we live in a very hilly area. A new groupset not needed, just the smallest chainring on front with the largest cartridge you can get on the back, lol. (SUPER GRANNY GEAR)
@ai6yr @ascentale @edd @bikenite I swapped on a 24 tooth smallest chainring and a 11-36 cassette which gives me a granny and a great-granny gear!
@ai6yr @ascentale @edd @bikenite I've got 30/34 on my gravel bike now and 40/42 on the commuter, and would never go back. Both are on 650B rims, which is a slight further reduction vs 700C.
All round, absolutely.
@ai6yr @ascentale @bikenite Sadly, I'm already at the lowest OEM tooth count at 40T and the rear casseette is maxed at 42T 😭 Seeing if I can't find some 3rd party nonsense at 38T, which I think is low enough that the kids won't feel too bad, but I won't be spinning out on my own.
I just really don't want to get a new groupset...
@ai6yr @ascentale @bikenite @edd
If you are already maxed out at the chainring/cassette...What's your crank length? I know currently more and more people opt for shorter cranks but maybe you could go for the opposite?
I actually have three different lengths on different bikes, 172mm on my gravel bike, 175 on my 27.5" MTB and actually 180mm on my old 26" MTB with 3x9 gears. The latter easily is the best climber of them all.
@ai6yr @ascentale @edd @bikenite seconding this.
I am hooked on oval since 2021. I pedal singlespeed and I definately feel that I get a bigger "range".
@ascentale @edd @bikenite A4: am old enough to have used BioPace when those were shiny and new. I found the 24T made some positive difference to heavily loaded hill climbing, but not enough to make it worth buying a replacement when it wore out.
IMO a hardy perennial in the bike world, but if there were dramatic benefits the regular research would have shown them.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite as usual Sheldon Brown covers this topic well: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html
In short, they provide little real benefit and have negative impacts on knees and maintaining a smooth cadence (tho I think those tend to be minor).
@ascentale @edd @bikenite I had biopace triple on one of my bikes. It was a really good climber, especially off the saddle. I never equated it with the front chainrings, although now I think about it that could well have been the reason, as it wasn't especially light, it had 531st tubes and usually a pannier on the back rack.
@ascentale @edd @bikenite #BikeNite A4 a long time ago, when that fad came around either the first or second time. Probably not helpful,but I can't say I noticed anything much about them, they were just what was on the bike at the time
@ajft @ascentale @edd @bikenite
A4. I agree. I had one a long time ago but never thought it made a noticeable difference.
@wanderinghermit @ajft @ascentale @edd @bikenite This sounds SO uncomfortable. Doesn't it feel... lumpy?
@moira @wanderinghermit @ajft @ascentale @edd @bikenite not at all, the angle is set so that leverage varies around the stroke. It's claimed to minimize the lumpiness we all get. None of us have the souplesse in pedalling we could have : push, drag, lift, kick works but the smoother the better . Every pro team would use them if they really diminished the deadspot
@wanderinghermit @ajft @ascentale @edd @bikenite Okay! Weird! But there y'go.
I think there are maths vs. geometry in my head confusing me about it
![ajft [SEC=&8212;haha]](https://mediacdn.aus.social/accounts/avatars/108/394/830/721/852/594/original/e8be0d5b3695c8a6.png "ajft [SEC=&8212;haha]")
