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@rl_dane this isn't enshittification, it's keeping the lights on. Enshittification is when they've trapped you and are trying to maximize profits.
Everyone's always eager to shit on Mozilla when they're still the only ones even trying...
I understand the desire to keep the lights on and get out from under Google's thumb, but enshittification is when an org starts becoming user-hostile.
Forced ads are enshittification. That's where we're at with Mozilla. :(
@rl_dane @Tattooed_Mummy Long time FF user/recent abandoner here.
Librewolf is apparently updated more frequently than Waterfox, so I tried it first, but it was still breaking occasional websites for me.
Waterfox seems to be much better for that, so is my current laptop daily driver.
I’m now waiting impatiently for Waterfox to be made available for iOS.
You just jogged my memory: you have to tweak a few settings to make #LibreWolf usable.
You need to go into about:config and turn off "Resist Fingerprinting," as that breaks several things, including time zone detection (unless you live in UTC ;)
I also would manually turn on Firefox Sync and a few other things in preferences.
I feel that if the EU wants to have their own digital sovereignty, they need to look into supporting their own browser, preferably a Firefox fork.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, the #EU has some of the same grifters and lobbyists that we do in the U.S., so there seems to be a constant tug-of-war between people who want to represent what's actually good for people vs. the special-interests and grifters.
Here in the U.S., there's scarcely even an opposition to the grifters. :(
@rl_dane I use Waterfox (a fork) and it works well.
That's one I'll be investigating. I'm using #LibreWolf on one of my machines already.
@rl_dane this, sadly, is what i suspect they mean by "always opt-in"
like "WE will opt you in!!" XD
@rl_dane "curated by the Firefox family"? What?
I didn't notice that wording, ha. Kinda got a godfather/scarface/goodfellas ring to it, don't it? XD
@rl_dane before this last update, Firefox NEVER crashed on me.
This week, it has been crashing across platforms.
Yeah.
Enshittification.
Somebody be vibe codin' 😁
@rl_dane I'm just waiting for the #ladybirdbrowser . Firefox has lost its path, we need new independent browser build from scratch.
Up to now, with all LLM things that Mozilla has done, you can just turn them off. I just shrug and turn them off
How is it in this case?
Can you turn this feature off, if so where?
You do realize that because Google literally funds Mozilla, they will keep doing these bad things, opting in users without permission
Maybe you should not use anything that the Mozilla makes anymore, otherwise you will just be annoyed and disappointed Time after Time. The Mozilla team is literally choked by Google, financially choked.
Wishing for their destruction is deeply emotional
These annoyances disappointments & irritations are not good for your health, my internet friend.
IMHO you should leave all Mozilla products behind, then be in Peace again.
Sending you
🦋💙❤️💋 #UniversalLove 💙💕🌹💐💙🦋
#LLM #generated #Slop #AI #advertisment #Mozilla #Firefox #OpenSource #configuration #technology #programming #Google #Alphabet
> How is it in this case?Can you turn this feature off, if so where?
Oh, you can, and I did. I was just extremely aggravated that they somehow turned it back on. I'm guessing it gets turned back on every time there's an update, but I'll test that carefully the next time.
> You do realize that because Google literally funds Mozilla, they will keep doing these bad things, opting in users without permission
Honestly, Mozilla doing bad things is ironically borne out of a desire to get out from under Google's thumb. They recognized that they're ~85+% funded by not only their direct competitor, but one of the top three villains of the internet age, and they want to find alternate streams of funding.
Unfortunately, the way they are seeking those alternate streams of funding is the most broken, brain-dead silicon valley ways, by alienating their users.
> Maybe you should not use anything that the Mozilla makes anymore, otherwise you will just be annoyed and disappointed Time after Time. The Mozilla team is literally choked by Google, financially choked.
I'm leaning more and more towards that decision, but Gecko-based browsers are currently the only viable option that I feel comfortable with. It's interesting to note that I don't have any gripes with #Thunderbird, which is managed by a different entity beneath the Mozilla umbrella, and they seem actually... SANE.
> Wishing for their destruction is deeply emotional
Indeed. It was a spicy take. I would rather with that they return to the values that founded them, but I'm not holding my breath.
> These annoyances disappointments & irritations are not good for your health, my internet friend.
Yeah. So many things to be angry about these days. Definitely not good for me.
🖖
@dendrobatus_azureus @rl_dane I've stopped using Firefox (thanks Vivaldi!) but, man, if Mozilla's A.I. lust comes for Thunderbird, I'm going to cry.
@Cosmosis @dendrobatus_azureus
Thunderbird is managed by MZLA, Inc. (IIRC), rather than "Big Mozilla," and they seem actually sane.
Thunderbird next?
Based upon the track record of Mozilla it's just a question of time before the programmers find a way of integrating large language model slop into the beautiful and elegant Thunderbird
Look closely; every time Mozilla is begging for money when you start up Thunderbird after 2 or 3 days of not having used it. It's annoying I haven't looked for a way to turn it off I stopped being annoyed about it after having faced it for sixteen times
This happens cross platform which means it is baked and hard coded into Thunderbird
#LLM #generated #Slop #AI #Mozilla #Firefox #OpenSource #configuration #technology #programming #Google #Alphabet
@dendrobatus_azureus @Cosmosis
I honestly respect direct appeals for funding way more than ads or AI slop.
@dendrobatus_azureus @Cosmosis @rl_dane
Thunderbird is largely independent since 2012.
@matsuzine @dendrobatus_azureus @Cosmosis
They were more independent until a few years ago, but getting re-absorbed into the Mozilla family actually brought a lot of funding and made it a lot better in the past five years or so.
But they still have their own management separate from the ridiculous corporate-FOMO-chasers at Mozilla's helm.
@dendrobatus_azureus @rl_dane I’ve recently switched from Firefox to Vivaldi for that reason. It saddens me, as I really liked the Firefox browser, and the things that Mozilla (said they) stood for.
What codebase is the Vivaldi browser based upon?
#LLM #generated #Slop #AI #Mozilla #Firefox #OpenSource #configuration #technology #programming #Google #Alphabet
@squalouJenkins @dendrobatus_azureus @keydelk @yoasif
Yes, it's the Blink (Chromium) backend with a custom proprietary UI.
@rl_dane @squalouJenkins @dendrobatus_azureus @yoasif unfortunately pretty much all modern browsers use the Blink engine from Google or Gecko engine from Mozilla - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_engine
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@rl_dane
They really abandoned the built-in RSS reader for this drek...
I like to believe that holding on to the Netscape/Seamonkey approach of a full-fat internet suite (browser+email+HTML editor+chat+usenet) would've kept their dignity intact, even during their stint as the Google Chrome's "controlled opposition".
It might even have saved the FirefoxOS project from dying in the crib and getting bought by a budget phone mogul (that's where KaiOS came from).
They really abandoned the built-in RSS reader for this drek...
I like to believe that holding on to the Netscape/Seamonkey approach of a full-fat internet suite (browser+email+HTML editor+chat+usenet) would've kept their dignity intact, even during their stint as the Google Chrome's "controlled opposition".
It might even have saved the FirefoxOS project from dying in the crib and getting bought by a budget phone mogul (that's where KaiOS came from).
Oh man, KaiOS. That's absolutely "We have Linux Phones at home." What garbage. 😅
Yeah, Firefox abandoning RSS is totally a tragedy.
@rl_dane
Discovered the FirefoxOS/KaiOS situation through Cathode Ray Dude* during his blogging arc.
https://blog.cathoderaydude.com/doku.php?id=blog:three_useless_phones
(it's under the header "weirdness level: 2")
* one of the ~10 tech Youtubers I still pay attention to: even after more-or-less banishing the service from my life
Discovered the FirefoxOS/KaiOS situation through Cathode Ray Dude* during his blogging arc.
https://blog.cathoderaydude.com/doku.php?id=blog:three_useless_phones
(it's under the header "weirdness level: 2")
* one of the ~10 tech Youtubers I still pay attention to: even after more-or-less banishing the service from my life
I've seen him before. I love the fact that he pronounces ewaste as if it were a Japanese word. 😄
@rl_dane #Mozilla #Firefox has been doing this for *years*. Like, for the past several #Debian releases too - and that distro uses the ESR version. It's disappointing to see Firefox enabling this crap by default on both the mainstream and ESR version.
You can turn this off in the settings, however, I wish this setting were opt-in rather than opt-out.
I use #Waterfox on my phone and have no complaints. It's Firefox stripped down and with some privacy settings enabled.
I only use Chrome at work as Firefox is banned and M$ Edge is the only other choice). While I have Chromium installed on the Debian laptop, it's largely for testing purposes.
I know it's default, I just hadn't seen it re-enable itself until fairly recently.
flashback to the times you were dubious of me using qutebrowser because it isn't based on Firefox. ;)
Still dubious, precious. XD
Well, not quite dubious, just not fully in agreement. ;)
The Internet-Explorer-only era was hell. I'll compile a Mozilla fork myself before conceding to the Blink hegemony. XD
My objection isn't with the Blink backend itself, but rather the way it signals to web sites that "this browser is basically Chrome," and propagates the hegemony.
I could go back to setting my user agent as "TRACK TRACK AS FAST AS YOU CAN YOU CAN'T TRACK ME I'M THE GINGERBREAD MAN"
lol, that's an option, but I think modern websites do more than just look at the user agent. There's a lot of things that signal what browser engine is running, and you probably know more about that than I do. ;)
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The point is that one company and one product (whether browser or engine) had a hegemony over the web, and I don't want to go back there.
No, a total Blink hegemony wouldn't be as annoying as a total IE hegemony, because at least it's cross-platform and "Open Source."
But in many ways it would be worse, because Google knows how to bend the web to its will, compared to Microslop's continuous incompetence.
Do you mean "Safari" as in, "Hey WebKit is an alternative," or "Safari" as in "Here's another example of one company controlling a web browser?"
I kinda like WebKit, but there isn't a browser implementation of it I particularly love. Gnome Web comes close, but then... it's Gnome, and I can't even with their UI paradigm.
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I know. Mozilla forks are the only viable option, IMO, until something like Servo or Ladybird becomes ready for prime-time.
I personally just can't use Blink. I lived through the Internet-Explorer-Only years, and I'm not going back. ;)
@rl_dane Unless this is a fresh installation with no previous .mozilla directory, not sure how this happened. I'm using the latest release and this didn't happen. I would blame the packager not the creator. I've never had things just re-enable themselves.
I believe this is the second time it's happened.
First time, you know, you'd just assume it was a fluke, or you did something weird.
Second time, though? Shenanigans. Especially since no other settings were changed.
I'm using the package from the #FreeBSD repos, so I'd presume it's pretty stock.
I think some Linux distros might tweak theirs to prevent this from happening, not sure.
@rl_dane @bitterseeds All the un-LLM options kept resetting for me, until I left.
I don't think I've experienced that yet.
@bitterseeds @rl_dane It happened both on my work windows PC and on my arch setup at home, so it seems to be pretty universally happening to me at least.
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@rl_dane unfortunately gecko based browsers are not as superior as blink based browsers and Mozilla doesn't help with the decisions they make within the company. Sadly they're our best option for open web standards until something else comes along. I recommend the following:
Gecko: Linux-Librewolf, android-ironfox.
Blink: Linux-Brave, android-vanadium/brave.
The Linux browsers can also work on windows if required, personally I don't use windows.
Yeah, the only windows box we have now is an old headless PC running windows 10 just for one application which has a bad gateway entered into the network settings so that it only works on the LAN and can't call home. :D
Windows is intolerable. I got my aunt to use Linux, and she likes it.
@rl_dane I switched to Zen Browser yesterday, I have peace
I can't with that UI. I don't know what planet that's from. XD
@rl_dane @joel
I used it for a month because it had vertical tabs and LibreWolf (appimage) kept crashing on me.
switched back to Librewolf (external debian repo) when I discovered that it already had native support for vertical tabs.
Never really used Zen's gimmicks, whatever they may have been.
Do appreciate Seamonkey for having big colorful icons, and the ability to easily fold away parts of the GUI.
Even has a Star Trek LCARS theme (mainly a TOS guy, never looked into TNG).
I used it for a month because it had vertical tabs and LibreWolf (appimage) kept crashing on me.
switched back to Librewolf (external debian repo) when I discovered that it already had native support for vertical tabs.
Never really used Zen's gimmicks, whatever they may have been.
Do appreciate Seamonkey for having big colorful icons, and the ability to easily fold away parts of the GUI.
Even has a Star Trek LCARS theme (mainly a TOS guy, never looked into TNG).
I think I tried #SeaMonkey once when it first came out, and it was a nice blast from the past to the original Mozilla days. ;)
Haven't tried it in a long time.
Oh dang, SeaMonkey came out in 2006?!? So my nostalgia was maybe 6-7 years old at the time.
lol
GenXers like me are so completely lost in time 🤣
@rl_dane @moses_izumi @joel i keep going back to seamonkey to get those early internet feels
Heh, "early internet feels" for me would be #NCSA Mosaic and/or accessing the web through telnet on DOS and a 1200-baud modem. XD
@rl_dane@polymaths.social @joel@polymaths.social
I'm currently using Vivaldi, having switched from Brave, despite not being open source & based on chromium, they seem to be the 'good guys' at the moment.
I eagerly await Ladybird though.
I'm currently using Vivaldi, having switched from Brave, despite not being open source & based on chromium, they seem to be the 'good guys' at the moment.
I eagerly await Ladybird though.
Yeah, they seem decent, honestly.
My gripe with Vivaldi isn't that the UI isn't FOSS, but that it's based on Blink.
That's not a technical objection, and it's not directly an ethical objection, but it comes from my deep-seated desire to not propagate the Blink hegemony, having lived through the awful "This website is designed to be used with Internet Explorer" days.
@rl_dane@polymaths.social @joel@polymaths.social
Yeah, I kinda struggle with the current Blink connection, however Blink originated as a fork of Apple WebKit, which itself was a fork of KDE's KHTML, as a KDE enjoyer I look at is as using a displaced KDE project.... Yeah a stretch I know.
Yeah, I kinda struggle with the current Blink connection, however Blink originated as a fork of Apple WebKit, which itself was a fork of KDE's KHTML, as a KDE enjoyer I look at is as using a displaced KDE project.... Yeah a stretch I know.
I do use uBO, but I'm not sure what your comment is replying to?
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@rl_dane Would love your feedback on Konform Browser in case you check it out! Aiming to provide the cleanest #disenshittified defaults 🫡
Oh and yes, Debian firefox-esr package does a decent job with hosing off the worst and also a different default than the upstream binaries.
Ah, neat, I'll check it out! :)
@rl_dane Librewolf is probably the best , it has nice privacy and anti-enshittification defaults. I recommend to spice it up with vertical tabs with the Vimium extension installed. With Vimium it feels more consisted with tiling window managers and things of the sort.
@alecsargent @rl_dane That's almost my complete setup as well, I have vertical tabs, hidden all the chrome, with vimium :)
I never used vertical tabs, but then, I'm a total pedant when it comes to limiting the number of tabs I keep open.
It's my equivalent of a clean-desk policy (leaving no papers on your desk when you leave work for the day), but in terms of browser tabs. ;)
@rl_dane @alecsargent Oh, you're one of the tidy ones, my desk, my tabs, my folders everything is chaos 😜 at least that's what everyone tells me, I find my way around it pretty quickly :D
I'm one of those super-reluctant neat freaks.
What I mean is that neither my personality nor my personal habits are particularly neat, but my psychology REQUIRES total neatness or I just fall into a big blue slump. XD
My only issue with #Librewolf is that they wipe out the captive portal setting you need for logging into guest wifi at coffee shops and the like.
But dang, that's a teensy niggle compared to this crap.
@rl_dane Hmmm … I investigated and found out that it can be reset to the default using the overrides file.
One needs to use "clearPref" in ".librewolf/librewolf.overrides.cfg" on the following the options that Librewolf takes from arkenfox.js:
https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/blob/3d76c74c80485931425464fec0e59d6cb461677a/user.js#L153-L159
Codeberg issue were this was discussed:
Thank you, I'll try that next time I'm on LW. :)
@rl_dane is this a distro Firefox? (If yes, report it as a bug there as well.) Is this from an update, or just during normal running? (Upstream Firefox can do that, distro Firefox tends to not.)
It's from #FreeBSD's packages.
It did get upgraded three days ago, but I've used firefox since then. And I don't generally keep it running on this machine, so it's had plenty of opportunities to start afresh and load whatever horrid new thing they want to do to my settings.
I dunno. This sucks. :P
@rl_dane @mirabilos Firefox recently modified its folder structure to be closer to XDG hierarchy. Perhaps your customizations got lost when you updated because of that.
Seem's everything is still under ~/.mozilla/ on the affected system. 🤷♂️
The version is firefox-esr-140.7.1